VideoGame_Discussion

I don't know. Most of the games on Game Pass are also available on PlayStation's premium service or their monthly freebies anyway. There are exceptions, but it's a pretty big overlap. Unless people are itching to get something on PS before it hits those options.

I haven't tried Redfall yet but want to, it actually landed in my randomly selected set of games to try next. I didn't mean to imply that it was horrible, but it certainly wasn't good at launch and like say Watch Dogs or Cyberpunk2077 it was overhyped and missed those expectations.
Alan Wake 2 is interesting as to why it didn't do great - Epic and no Steam, digital only, not playing fully as Alan, race swapping Saga and having her be very shallow... just lots of missteps.

I heard some info about GP not long ago about how early on M$ was throwing some big $$$ at devs to get them to put games on the service, especially for day 1 launches, but that has dried up a LOT. Personally I have little issue/almost prefer that a game doesn't go on there day 1. Let the dev/pub get more sales to the folks that just have to buy it/are willing to pay to play it right away. Then 3, 6, heck even 12 months later get it on GP. Jedi Survivor just finally landed on EAplay and thus GPU almost exactly 1 year after launch. I liked Fallen Order a good bit but wasn't compelled to buy Survivor and waited it out, will be playing that soon as well since it's now available to me.

I also have noticed that lots of games, especially smaller ones, tend to hit some of the same free or cheap options around the same time. Like M$ will add it to GP, then Epic and/or Amazon Games will give it away for free and maybe it'll land on PS+ as well.

Oh yeah MS Game Pass is a great value but almost too great of a value and some people, myself included, don’t just keep an active rolling 12 month subscription but rather look for those cheap 3 month codes and sub in for a limited time and play the few new shiny games then bounce not to be seen again until the next wave of new games comes out on the service. By folks like me who do that it probably really hinders their overall sales growth.

DCGX wrote:

True. To clarify- MS first party games would greatly benefit from a strategy like that.

According to a new report from IGN, the announcement caught Arkane developers by surprise as they were still actively working on the first-person shooter, including its now-cancelled Hero Pass DLC. It's said that Arkane Austin was also working on an update for Redfall, due out this month, which would have added an offline mode to the shooter.

So now its another game lost to history once the servers go offline. Which will probably be soon.

I feel bad for the Arkane Austin people. These people have taken a lot of abuse over the game. But they've been working on it apparently non stop to make it what players wanted, and what they wanted it to be. They were forced to release it way too early due to the Bethesda acquisition by Microsoft. I guess they wanted another full year to work on it, they were told no. Microsoft wanted something for game pass in early 2023, so the game was rushed. Pretty messed up.

TalonJedi87 wrote:

This is probably going to be my strategy when my sub expires in August. I want to complete Jedi Survivor before then which shouldn’t be an issue. I would’ve liked to complete Sea of Stars too but that’s going to be ambitious with my summer schedule. I’ll probably just start working through my backlog once I lose GP.

Slickriven wrote:

Your point about Tango is why I'm so worried about Ninja Theory. Their founder left last month and I have no idea who heads up the studio now. It's always my worry when a megacorp buys a studio. Key people end up leaving oftentimes to start smaller, more agile studios and all that's left is the original studio name and IP.

Archer wrote:

I remember reading something last year that they didn't even want to make Redfall. And then it was rushed out to fill the Gamepass quota during that period of transition where there doesn't seem to have been much oversight from Microsoft. Hurts to lose a dev this talented and makes me worry for all devs.

Someone mentioned Alan Wake a few posts ago and apparently Remedy's next game is a live service game. Feels like it could be Rocksteady all over again. We live in a world now where blockbusters are too expensive and anything unique is too risky. So live service games and remakes is all anyone wants to greenlight. If you can't monetize a game or find a way to play on nostalgia, you're kinda screwed.

Arcane Austin closing does not shock me. Red Fall was an absolute turd of a game. I feel bad for anyone that spent actual money on it. The only positive thing I can say about it is simply that I did not invest ANY money in the game for the time I spent with it. This game has no redeeming qualities one of the worst games I have played in awhile and I put it right up there with turds like Circus Maximus (Xbox) R.A.D (PS2). The blame IMO should be put on the suits that green lit this turd instead of flushing it and that decision killed this studio. It sucks people will never get what they paid for, but at least MS is going to try and make that right... I am sure they will.

Tango, I am shocked. I must admit at first I had no interest in the game and really had no interest in the genre... but I watched a review on it about a week ago when I noticed it was on a flash deal on PSN and I kinda want to give it a go. I don't think I will buy it this sale I just have too much to play, but the next time I see it on flash I will jump on it. Just sad it's not seeing a physical release officially and it's being farmed out to Limited Run.

Alpha Dog studios - Mobile games... yuck. Never herd of any of there properties. Sad to see people loose there jobs... not sad to see less mobile games crap.

Roundhouse Studios... same as AD, not really sure what they have done.

It may not be recent and most of the current shutdowns have been western studios but lets not forget Japan Studios.


With Tago again, I am not sure Hi-Fi Rush was a MASSIVE success. Maybe in comparison to recent MS 1st party releases... but I do recall hearing the game did not do as well as hopped saying the game had not earned the money it hopped it would make. I believe this game was hurt because of GP. The game would have generated more cash IMO had it not been on GP. I don't believe the game prompted a massive influx of subscribers. Sure GP probably allowed people to play the game that otherwise would never have.. .but those people are typically already going to have GP.. MS already has that money. Again I doubt a game like Hi-Fi Rush brought in enough GP subs to off set potential sales and this hurt the studio in the end.

Finn wrote:

My understanding is although the studio was technically closed, it was mostly reorganized into other studios like Team Asobi

benstylus wrote:

That's right, forgot about that one. But I still think Sony Lost some talent over that.

I fear for Ninja Theory and them being on the chopping block next then if Hellblade II doesn’t sell like a bajillion copies out the gate.

Again, games like the ones Ninja Theory make has to make you think what there metric for success is? If the game is 1st party there is no way in hell it can be copies sold.. not with GP cannibalizing's potential sales and games of this nature typically don't draw one into a subscription service. You would think it would be a combination of the two. I am genuinely curious to see how they do it.

This is probably why if I was a smaller studio under MS's umbrella I would be a little scared of being shut. MS might do better if they sold of the studios they plan on shutting down and IP they will undoubtedly let go and crap on a shelf and gather dust.

Seems that the direction the industry is heading in is you need to be a AAA and/or AAAA game developer or GTFO nowadays apparently. What a world.

TalonJedi87 wrote:

I don’t see that at all. In fact I think it’s gonna go the opposite. There are a lot of indie games with small teams or one person that make a lot of money and become huge successes

Shane12m wrote:

You might think indies have a better chance but how many indie titles in a given year make any kind of splash?

Then compare that to the total number of games released every year.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/552623/number-...

Last year there were over 12,000 games released on Steam. Lets assume at least 11,000 of those were indies (probably much higher... I doubt the big publishers are collectively releasing 3 games a day every day all year to get to 1000+).

Start naming all your favorite indie darlings of 2023... For each one you can name there are probably 500 more that went nowhere saleswise.

benstylus wrote:

11K of those weren't indie games though. 1K of those were indies. And 10k of those were shovelware, or trashware. Whatever term you prefer. Steam, PS and Nintendo are overrun with garbage releases. 80-85% of all games released on all three platforms fall into that shovelware category now. Its pathetic.

And just for arguments sake, so there is clarification. An indie is a game made by someone with actual development knowledge or skills. Someone using actual tools that aren't free to the public, or hold your hand WYSIWYG tools. Like RPG Maker for example. Or someone who owns an actual business that makes profitable games. Shovel/trashware are games that anyone of us could just slap together with basic tools and minimal knowledge/skills and get it listed for sale. I'm sure I don't need to provide examples, we all see them. All those under $5 games. Or all the anime porn bullcrap on steam.

Well apparently MS is doing this because they have basically said they can’t operate all they have bought. There is more too it but there is talk COD may not make it to GP the new releases anyway. I hate to say I saw this coming but I did, it was painfully obvious that was the way it was going to go. GP is also going to see a price increase. I am not here to argue the value of GP but it will go down as MS’s biggest blunder. It’s just not sustainable and with games getting more expensive to make… writing is on the wall, you just need to read it.

https://metro.co.uk/2024/05/09/xbox-plans-job-cuts...

Yeah and if COD hits GP then it’ll get another price hike. Soon the value is going to be outweighed by the monthly fee me thinks because once it creeps up and approaches a wifi or cell phone bill monthly price that’s when folks might start questioning its real value.

Archer wrote:

I would guess the anime porn games are more profitable than most games that you would define as indies.

But that's part of the problem. With the flood of crap being so ubiquitous, it's often difficult to find the "good" indie titles. If they don't get noticed within the first few days of coming out, they usually get buried under the pile.

Even if the number of quality indies is closer to 1,000 a year, still maybe 2 to 3 percent of those make it big. Not great odds.

TalonJedi87 wrote:


Honestly I think you are going to see a price hike without the addition of new COD's. By putting the game day one on GP lets say 1 million people don't buy the new COD and instead get it on GP and lets say 70% are digital sales and 30% are physical. You are looking at roughly 63.7 million dollars that the people getting the game on GP have to spend in COD cosmetics and currency just to break even and hope for more spending to make some more money. That's a tall ask IMO. I don't buy in game cosmetics at all and getting the game on GP would not change that.. The only game that manages to get me to spend was WoW back in the day and now Fall Guys, I don't spend a lot but it offers the most temptation lol... well that and Pokemon GO when I played it more but I have not spent any money on that since my kid was born so....

Raising the price of GPU or GP for that matter may drive up sales a tad if people opt to just buy the game and forget about GP, but that would hurt the GP model and the fact that even MS has acknowledged the slow growth in new subs. Something gonna have to break at some point.

Oh yeah I mean, you just have to ask the question at the end of the day, which is how high is MS Willing to push the envelope And raise the bar on the monthly premium Before people start to wake up and go “I only want GP for one or two games right now I’ll just buy them on a sale or used etc. for about the same price as a monthly GP sub” If GP breaches like say $25-30+ a month I can def see peeps buying games directly again than just renting or leasing them on a live service subscription.

Part of the miscalculation here is M$ looking at a game coming to GP Day 1 and thinking, this needs to drive X# of new subs. Epic store has/had similar thoughts with offering free games each week.

To ding Hi-Fi Rush for low sales makes no sense when nobody knew it was coming and it went to GP. So the active subs like me opted to try it out, maybe right away, maybe a few weeks/months later, but I just don't think it was going to entice hundreds, let alone thousands of new or returning GP subs. The genre isn't that big of a driver, sure the pedigree of Tango likely drove some interest, but clearly that wasn't enough.
Similar with Epic, them offering a certain game for free this week might get some new customers, but the vast majority of customers are likely already present, while some will almost never come onboard bc they hate the company or head guy.

I really think to save GP day 1 releases should get heavily limited. It likely made sense initially to drive interest but now the vast majority of potential subs have tried out the service and decided if they'll stay subbed or join periodically or never bother.

I mean while it certainly is nice to have a $70 game as a day 1 release, I guess if it keeps costs and monthly premiums down to release new titles a few months post launch I would be a fan of that. Plus, there's no way with my, and I'm sure other folks, limited time schedules, to play most new game releases day or even week 1 anyway nowadays. I have a pretty decently sized backlog as well to sift thru before I get to any new releases and by the time I am ever caught up, those new releases become months old and are even discounted by then.

I agree with the time allotment take you're making @TalonJedi87 but that's coming from gamers in their 30's and 40's and maybe older. It certainly seems like teens and some useless folks in their 20's have plenty of free time to game or protest or whatever. Joking aside, I do wonder on the breakdowns for gaming time of GP in general but also along age groups and such. I don't have kids and gaming is my number 1 hobby and time suck, but I know plenty of other adults that were into gaming more in the past but don't have the luxury to make time for gaming anymore.

The time sink factor is also maybe an argument on not bringing CoD to GP Day 1. Seems like many players of that franchise really only play that game or maybe a few other similar titles, so GP doesn't really make sense for that crowd... Or maybe it does?

TalonJedi87 wrote:


Exactly. People crapped on PS+ Extra and PS+ Premium when they were introduced a couple years ago for not getting AAA games on day one like GamePass, but I don't care, there's more than enough to play that I don't need everything day one. If a game is good on day one, it'll still be good a year later. In fact it'll probably be better a year later with all the updates and extra content that were added over time. I have games like Dead Island 2, Dead Space Remake and others that I'm forgetting right now, all 2023 releases that I've still never gotten around to playing yet. No rush. Today I'm going to download Animal Well on PS+ and I'll play and hope to enjoy it probably more than any other AAA title that released day one on GamePass so far in 2024.

Part of the reason why I think Sony has a better strategy. Not saying it's perfect... but at least it allows the games to make it's money. The people that would never buy it still won't and will wait the time it takes to show on the service rather than have people that otherwise would buy it playing it on Plus rather than buying it.

Tango got a raw deal and I hope that talent lands somewhere where they can be properly utilized.

@Slickriven you are right. My brother for example rarely plays anything else. His PlayStation is more a COD machine then anything same with the group he plays with and they are not alone, I don't want to say vast majority but I bet you it's a sizeable number of people that only play COD and nothing else... maybe Madden of FIFA if your in Europe.

They really need to put smarter people in charge over there.

Just a day after Microsoft closed Hi-Fi Rush studio Tango Gameworks, Xbox Game Studios head Matt Booty has reportedly told staff, “We need smaller games that give us prestige and awards." Tango Gameworks' Hi-Fi Rush was a hit when it shadow-dropped into Xbox Game Pass, reaching more than two million players just over a month after its release and raking in a host of accolades, including a Game Award and a BAFTA. Compared to many of Xbox's first-party games, Hi-Fi Rush fits the bill as a "smaller game," and certainly earned the prestige and awards Matt Booty is asking for. In fact, Xbox itself referred to the game as a "break out hit" in "all key measurements and expectations," according to vice president of Xbox games marketing Aaron Greenberg last year. Bloomberg reports that Tango Gameworks was in the process of pitching a Hi-Fi Rush sequel when Microsoft closed the studio, which makes the closure even more confusing.

Cognitive Dissonance may actually exist.

MS to me always needs smarter business folks leading the helm because they essentially have some great ideas, but for every great idea, there’s like 2 or 3 really bad ones that cause them to back peddle and wind up doing something foolish that doesn’t really benefit anyone, developer or consumer alike and causes more harm than help.

Finally, something all the Xbox gamers have been clamoring for. A mobile store!

Reminds me of the dude at ABK that asked the people booing him after announcing a Diablo mobile game, "Don't you people have cell phones?".

So this is how it ends huh MS? With a mobile store? I think I just might kill you tonight. Excuse me while I go find something to strike you with.

Hellblade 2 is due on the 21st may. I’m not hearing much about it. What’s going on?

Feeb wrote:

Everyone is concerned about it since Ninja Theory was bought by Microsoft. And there is mounting concern if this game doesn't set record numbers they could get shut down as well. Also rumors now that it was rushed to meet quarterly targets. I have no idea if there is any truth to that, or any of the concerns. Its all just speculation and rumors at this point. Its also an xbox exclusive (also pc I think) for the time being. So it doesn't have the big hype as it would if it was on all systems. The first game sold the most copies on PS4, and now its not on PS5. People are are really down on xbox and anything exclusive to them seems to be cancer at this point. So I think a lot of the hype died outside the people that loved the first game.

Archer wrote:

I don’t do twitter anymore but months ago HB2 was already a hot topic. Take that with a grain of salt since most discussions on Twitter are probably paid mouth pieces etc. but there was a palpable hype.

Yeah, all the hype is from fans. There does not seem to be any marketing being done on their end. Which is also probably what is fueling peoples concerns. Video games are in a weird place right now.

Personally thought it was a strange game to hype as a big mainstream system seller at Xbox series launch. The first one is not much more than a tech demo- cool but pretty minimalist.

I’m sure Hellblade 2 will score well. I loved the first game and played through it multiple times. It was short and sweet romp that was great to play with a pair of headphones to pick up all the little sounds, but yeah agreed if the sequel doesn’t sell well enough for MS’ wacky standards, Ninja Theory may have a target on their backs for the next round of MS’ chopping block.

The first one looked great and had some cool concepts and audio, but was an extremely simple game. By the end I was pretty bored. The bar for the sequel (to me) is pretty low. As a GP title I'm excited about it and think it'll get a lot of play from folks, but I don't know about sales. It looks like the focus again was on mo-cap and graphics, and without marketing $ being spent I can't imagine it's going to veer too far from the original.